Chair of Nez Perce Nation – No Water No Life

Interviewee

Rebecca Miles

Chair of the Nez Perce Nation

Interviewers

Alison M. Jones

NWNL Director and Photographer

Barbara Folger

NWNL Expedition Member and Photographer

May 15, 2014, Nez Perce National Historic Park, Lapwai, Idaho

Introductory Note

As the youngest ever and first female Chair of the Nez Perce Nation, Rebecca’s role as a Native American leader is ground-breaking. In this interview it was clear why she was able to break that boundary. Her culture, Coyote’s teachings, plus her deep inner strength and convictions are powerful and why NWNL allowed this interview’s format to be shaped more like a lecture than a question-and-answer session. It was an honor to listen to her coherent analysis and deeply instilled knowledge of Nez Perce values and traditions, as well as breakthroughs that have helped cope with change. There was little need to disrupt Rebecca with our preset questions. She covered them all.

Outline

CHAIR REBECCA MILES’ BACKGROUND
A FOCUS on WATER and FISHERIES
BEING the FIRST FEMALE in LEADERSHIP
PRESERVING VALUES and RIGHTS
CHANGING ATTITUDES & CHANGING TIMES
INEFFICIENT BI-OP’s DONT SAVE SALMON
THE LOST ECONOMY of SALMON
ADVOCACY & The “DAMNATION” FILM
IRRIGATOR FARMERS
WATER NEEDS of SALMON SMOLTS
“DAMNATION” & “DEADBEAT DAMS”
WINNERS & LOSERS in DAM REMOVALS
DAM REMOVAL PROCESSES & BENEFITS
VOTERS CAN SAVE SPECIES
HATCHERY SALMON PRO’S & CON’S
NEZ PERCE AS ROLE MODEL
OH, DAM!
SCIENCE & LAWS ADDRESSING SALMON
The ANT, the YELLOWJACKET and COYOTE
FOREVER COMMITTED

Key Quotes Having clean water, having rivers flow like a river, having enough water for fish is absolutely my role. — Rebecca Miles, Chair of the Nez Perce Nation

The benefit of breaching the 4 Lower Snake River Dams is an American issue. It is critical that everyone pay attention. It costs US taxpayers a lot of money to maintain hydropower for the Northwest – and the rest of the United States. So why would you, an everyday American, pay for a system of dams that hurts the survival of salmon, protected under the Endangered Species Act? Why should you pay for dams that don’t provide the benefits originally promised? All Americans must pay attention; rethink this issue; and then agree to breaching the four Lower Snake River Dams. — Rebecca Miles, Chair of the Nez Perce Nation

ALISON JONES / NWNL Hello, Rebecca. Thank you for your time. Let’s start with you telling us about the responsibilities of your job as the Executive Director of the Nez Perce tribe?

REBECCA MILES I work for the Nez Perce Tribal Executive Committee. This governing body of the Nez Perce tribe governs all our policy work: social services, education and day-to-day operations. Our largest department is the Nez Perce Tribe Department of Fisheries Resource Management.

ALISON JONES / NWNL As Director of No Water No Life, I thank you and the Nez Perce for your leadership in watershed issues. During our travels across the Columbia River Basin, it’s been clear that without the Native American tribes, the Pacific Northwest wouldn’t be as environmentally secure as it is.

During my first trip to this watershed in 2007, I documented the Columbia Basin from Canada into the U.S., including a border interview with reps at Teck Cominco’s zinc-smelting plant. The responsibility for their transboundary pollution was then coming to a head – mostly because the US tribes pushed this issue into the US Supreme Court for the legal settlement that finally came through. The Nez Perce are similarly active here in the Snake River sub-basin of the Columbia River Basin. For that, No Water No Life deeply appreciates and admires your tribe’s exemplary environmental values.

CHAIR REBECCA MILES' BACKGROUND

ALISON JONES / NWNL Let’s begin with your story and philosophy, and then discuss this watershed’s values, characteristics, issues you’re facing and potential solutions. You became an expert in water rights and – to use your words – “a problem-solver, willing to listen and change your mind?” How did that happen?

REBECCA MILES I got involved with these issues of natural resources, water and fisheries issues by accident. I’m a young “Chair” by accident; although my great uncle, Billy Frank, Jr., always said there are no accidents. In my early life, I was never allowed to go fishing because I was a girl, albeit quite a tomboy. That almost killed me. My mom and dad tell of my waiting up to any hour of the night for a fish catch to be brought home. I’d take so much pride in caring for all of them. Sometimes there’d be 40 or 50 fish to be cleaned and requiring hours and hours of work. But it was what I enjoyed. Yet, I always longed to go fishing. My parents said fishing was not for a girl – and that wasn’t really a sexist comment, considering the Rapid River conflict that was going on then.

The Rapid River conflict was a huge issue facing the Nez Perce fishery and the State of Idaho. It was a bad situation. Some of my classmates, ages 5, 6 or 7, were arrested or given citations. When I was elected in 2004 to be on the Nez Perce Travel Executive Committee, the first assignments I was given were automatically women’s issues. I was the only woman on the Travel Council, but I was passionate about the health and welfare of the tribe, so it felt like signing up for a field trip. A week after elected it I was asked if I’d like to fly down with the Chairman to release terms of the Snake River Basin adjudication; and I went. Idaho Governor Kempthorne, Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton, and our Chairman Anthony Johnson released to the public agreed-to confidential negotiations and water agreement terms for the first time in years. Suddenly, we had only 9 months for all 3 sovereigns to agree to this. My initial instinct was, “This will never pass on my watch.” That whole first 9 months of my term was learning about this agreement.

I felt strongly our people needed help to understand the agreement. Its highly technical language had to be explained our people. We were about to settle our most sacred thing – water, and that doesn’t go easily with our people. The Office of Legal Council staff and I led about 18 or 19 hearings on the Reservation. We weren’t asked to do that – and nobody assigned that to me. But, as my dad described later, it was like my going back to wait for the fish to come home. We had work that needed to be done, so let’s do it. I appreciate that background, because nobody teaches you how to be on Tribal Council. It’s sink or swim. Nobody tells you how, and there’s no training. I was the only woman on Council then and I was the youngest person.

During that time, we didn’t have delegates attending the 40-year-old U.S. vs. Oregon court case. There was still a monthly meeting – even after 40 years. Yearly, all sovereigns sent a delegate to negotiate and work out fishery issues. I was told, “You need to get down there. Nobody’s going to that meeting.” So I went and had the pleasure of working with my cousin, Joe Oatman.

[NWNL also interviewed Joe Oatman.]

Joe and I became a good team. Yet after a couple of meetings, I got a backlash and was bumped around after giving a report to the table. They’d say, “You know, a woman doesn’t belong down there. These are not women’s issues. What the hell is she doing down here?” I remember one councilman stuck up for me, even though we bumped heads a lot. He said, “She’s going there, because we told her to since you’re not attending the meeting. We need representation there.”

The rest is history. I never stopped working on natural resource, water and fisheries issues. Did I get pushed around more? Yeah, I did – for just being a woman. But issues were more important; and I felt I had something to offer, although I never see myself as an expert.

A FOCUS on WATER and FISHERIES

REBECCA MILES I never thought I would know so much about water, especially in technical terms. Going through our process of adjudication was not something I longed for. I didn’t know about “acre-feet of water;” how they flow; and at what times of year. But it came with the position, since I was needed to educate our tribal members. What do 50,000 acre-feet of domestic water use mean to our people? That is very important.

History will show we accepted the settlement with the US and State of Idaho. There wasn’t a good feeling about it; but no tribe wants to be settling long-term rights already guaranteed to us in the ’55 and the ’63 Treaties.

As we discussed what we lost, we realized we lost most of our rights – including springs and fountains – in that settlement. That was very painful, but we’d already lost those rights on the reservation to private ownership with the Dawes and Allotment Acts. So, we’ll never have access to those springs and fountains now. That is painful. No amount of money would suffice for that loss of access to those springs and fountains.

I think many people, even our own attorneys, learned that money was of no importance to our tribe. The final settlement was very painful – like a death. I went home and went to bed, because I care very much. Having clean water, rivers flowing like a river should, and having enough water for fish is absolutely my role. Also it’s troublesome that some would say that as a woman I’m not strong enough and shouldn’t be in that role. But I am as responsible as anybody else.

BEING the FIRST FEMALE in LEADERSHIP

REBECCA MILES When I and two other women were on the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, my uncle would say, “You have every Goddamn right to be there.” Previously, there’d only been1 woman, sometimes 2, on the Commission. But this time there were 3, with each of us as officers: chair, vice-chair and treasurer. When there was a full table of male Commissioners – all fisherman on the river – almost each meeting would start with 1 or 2 speeches on why women didn’t belong on that Commission. It was never brutal. They’d roll their eyes, and then say, “Okay, let’s now get to work.” I didn’t fault them, because that’s what they knew. I never took it as a slam, because when the meeting ended, we all ate together, and then hugged and shook hands. But at every meeting, somebody would grandstand and say, “Women don’t belong at this table.”

ALISON JONES / NWNL That is a moving example of change. I’ve connected and interviewed Ray Gardner, Chair of the Chinook Nation. Now that Ray Gardner is sick, Kate Elliott will become Chair of the Chinook Nation, at least temporarily.

I want to repeat a poignant quote of yours: “We’ve become less traditional and I’m part of that; and that’s tough for me to say.” And you’ve asked, “How can my leadership protect the traditions so sacred to us?” So, what traditions do you want to protect, and how might they change?

REBECCA MILES I probably made that comment when I was becoming the Chair. After my first year, I was ready to resign and talked to my family about it. It was a tough year. I received death threats over that water settlement. When my family was attacked, I was ready to resign; although I’d never quit anything.

Then, 3 weeks later, our chairman didn’t get elected. The buzz was, “Who’s going to get nominated for the Chair?” Only the 9 people on Tribal Council choose the officers. When I was nominated to become the Chair, I felt numb. I had to accept the nomination in a little meeting after the general meeting. We pulled up a table and chairs, and 9 of us met in front of all the people there. There’s pushing and pulling, and candidates’ family members nudging you, saying “You’d better vote for my family member.” I didn’t have a big family to do that. I’ve never had a big contingency to support me. I’ve always felt on my own. My parents weren’t even at the meeting because they’re not political people. For me, it wasn’t a position I yearned for.

Three of us were running – then two. I think I won 7 to 2. I was the first woman Chair! with Wilfred Scott, an elder I’d served with, just sat back and laughed. Everybody was cheering. People were shocked and amazed; but Wilfred just sat back staring at me. He said, “You didn’t get that, because you’re a woman. You got it, because you proved yourself.” I appreciated that; and I also felt that way.

Many people focused on my being young and being a woman chair. My whole first year was literally hell. I didn’t know if I was right or wrong, because nobody teaches you or gives you any guidance. At that point, all I got was a sense of approval by my peers. That felt great. And while no woman had ever before chosen as Chair, women had a huge hand in how Chairs were selected.

PRESERVING VALUES and RIGHTS

REBECCA MILES Many Chairs have been selected by how they treated women in their family. Thus, they had a high regard for personal integrity and moral ethics. That’s why our Chairs have been so great and why there was never a cry for a woman to be a Chair. There was no gender inequality, as there is now. We all had equal and sacred roles to ensure our survival. But not today. So, I really care about restoring that.

The Tribal Council also addressed something our elders wanted for a long time — a Nez Perce longhouse. We only had a small shack on our reservation for gatherings. Many wonderful things have taken place in our longhouses, helping our beautiful way of life survive. However, it’s taken me years to get our Council to build it. As the Council Executive, tomorrow I’ll bless the ground where it will be built. It will help preserve tradition, culture and a guaranteed continuance of our way of life for 100 more years – despite outside influences. We run a modern-day government and we all have cars; but preservation of sacred things is still important to us.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Speaking of Nez Perce values on water and fish, In 2007, I met Portland supporters of a Salmon Nation when documenting the Columbia Basin. They advocate that all waters with salmon from California to Alaska and down into Asia should become an ecologic entity, like a nation. While not likely, such an ecosystem-based economy and government with laws and regulations supporting salmon is interesting. Can you see such an idealistic utopian concept evolving today? Perhaps it’s more realistic to demand our government and economy to accept the long-term goals that your nation holds so strongly?

REBECCA MILES That’s a big question! We’ve endured great fishing wars and fish-ins where our fishermen were arrested. We’ve come a long way since then; yet we’re still far apart in ideology. We still have a zero-sum game with clear winners and losers. We’ve invested so much in questionable investments, like dams and inappropriate irrigation for farming. And yet we continued, because we were settling the West. Now, we’re so stuck in that mentality that we continue without considering a better way. How do we step back to assess the system and ask, “What should we preserve?” Thinking unselfishly, how can we – both Indians and non-Indians – preserve the Columbia River Basin to ensure clean, cold fresh water for another 100 years? How do we stop over-appropriation? In our Snake River Basin adjudication settlement, I felt we were getting laughed out of the room with those questions.

CHANGING ATTITUDES & CHANGING TIMES

REBECCA MILES I testified to the State Legislature, held at Bora Hall at Boise State because so many people were there. One Natural Resource member said, “The Nez Perce tribe has claimed pretty much all the water in the basin.” The panel and the crowd laughed. I didn’t think it was funny, and answered, “Well, Mr. Chair, we need water; and we have a right to fish that which was guaranteed to us in the 1855 Treaty. Fish need water in all seasons, not just when they return here to spawn. Then the juveniles need it.” The room went silent, since no one thinks in those terms. The Nez Perce claims that our water plan is to leave it in the riverbed and its banks. The rest of the world acts as if we should use every resource: “If it’s still there, it’s a wasted resource.” That’s what the dam utility Bonneville Power calls “foregone revenues.”

You can’t resolve issues by winning and losing. You must resolve issues by inviting all to the table, even your greatest foes. People need to understand the problems and have a sense of buy-in. That’s why we’ve had so many years of litigation. Fortunately, we won the last round of the federal Columbia River system biological opinion (aka, “bi-op”). Judge Redden threw it out, but did we really win?

We still have dams operating the same way; and we still have the 4 “deadbeat dams” on the Lower Snake River. We still have status quo, even though the current President says, “I’m going to restore science to its rightful place.” They say politics is all local; and it is. It’s getting people to the table, and I care about that. I really cared that the Nez Perce tribe had a seat at that table, and wasn’t excluded from conversations.

There may be some efforts now that could change the minds of people. That is exciting. Yes, we live in exciting times. When I was first elected, Congress said those 4 Lower Snake River dams would never come down – even in our grandchildren’s lifetime. But many sense that could be wrong.

ALISON JONES / NWNL In 2007, I taped a NWNL interview with William Layman, historian of the Columbia River Basin; and we’ve stayed in touch. He advised that, as I study the Columbia and Snake Rivers, I’d better be prepared to grieve. I understand. But, Rebecca, will there be a time to celebrate, rather than grieve?

REBECCA MILES Layman’s comment about grieving is right on point. As a young person, as part of organizations like the Columbia River Tribal Fish Commission, I’ve known older fishermen who’ve been through major brutality and devastation on the Columbia. They’d seen their parents and grandparents rely on that river. Now they see it dammed up. Yes, there’s grieving… – grieving that our way of life for thousands of years is now underwater behind dams. That’s how it’s been described to me by fishermen, by people with families and in my family. It has been a death for us all.

But I do think there will be a time to celebrate. One victory will be if we can get the US government to operate the dams within the legal confines of the Endangered Species Act. That would be a huge victory for salmon, a listed endangered species. They would then have a winning chance at survival. The US is doing everything it can to guarantee survival of the salmon. That is one step to victory. The Nez Perce believe that the Snake River needs to run like a river and must be cold. It must flow as the Creator intended it to run. That’s what nature counts on – not these new ways of thinking and building dams.

INEFFICIENT BI-OP's DONT SAVE SALMON

REBECCA MILES We must think about energy differently. Hydropower is not clean energy, despite my having heard that so often. When I was first elected at age 30, I asked, “Why do they call dam’s hydropower the cleanest energy?” That was foreign to me. Now I absolutely disagree that hydropower is clean energy. Re-thinking energy would be a victory worthy of celebration for the Nez Perce. Speaking as a Tribal Councilman, it would be a great victory to see the removal of the 4 Lower Snake River dams. Then we’d see river life start to return. We can’t count on it yet, but life could come back into everything – including the economy.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Is using the Endangered Species Act to demand dams have efficient fish passages a first step – or is it an either/or? If dam operators invest more money to install fish passages through dams, will that make them more reluctan later to consider dam removals?

REBECCA MILES Formerly, I served on the Executive Committee and Tribal Council. I am not part of those policy discussions now, but I don’t think that they have changed. When I served as a “policy person,” our #1 goal was to restore fish back to healthy, harvestable levels. NOAA Fisheries produces biological opinions [aka, bi-ops] on how the US Bonneville Power Agency runs its dams. NOAA protects endangered species within confines of all laws they’re required to follow. Thus, while we still have the 4 lower Snake River dams, any bi-ops NOAA releases should aggressively approach how those hydropower dams operate.

By “aggressive approach,” I mean the entire system needs to be studied. Not all problems are from the Lower Snake River dams. Operations at dams like John Day need improvement, but they would cost the taxpayers and ratepayers a lot of money. Folks say we can’t do that. Yet the bi-op is meant to ensure that that’s not the issue. We don’t care how much it costs you, because its US actions that are causing this damage. Sadly, with every bi-op, we get a sense that these agencies are all in bed together.

The tribes, environmentalists and State of Oregon this time all stuck together. It’s frustrating as an American citizen, to think this is the way our government is run. The Nez Perce tribe always saw breaching the 4 Lower Snake River dams as a last alternative. We wanted to see aggressive bi-op measures change hydro-operations. But they refused to do it; and spill operations are being ordered by the judge as an injunctive relief.

So, it’s frustrating to watch their game of “Let’s just stay in court and waste time, because suing over one bi-op takes several years. Let’s say the dams are part of the natural landscape, so we don’t need a bi-op anymore.” That’s the mentality of the US government. We spend a lot of time proving that’s not the truth. We’re wasting time on silly little tactics in court.

ALISON JONES / NWNL We listen to all sides. So we had an interview at the Port of Lewiston hearing the same comments from a different side: “The legal battles are a waste of money. All the money goes to lawyers.” So, it seems both sides – as well as irrigators and fishermen on the dock – are frustrated at this waste, and at watching nothing getting done Everybody complains this is all tied up in the legal courts and only lawyers are making money.

REBECCA MILES I agree. When we battle over bi-ops, Congress pays attention and the Northwest delegation and Presidential administration watch what’s going on. While interviewing all sides when I was on Tribal Council, I talked to folks from all organizations and interests, including irrigators and people at the Port of Lewiston. I wanted to understand their belief systems and their thinking on the river. I also wanted them to listen and understand me.

I’m thankful my parents and grandparents raised me to talk about what was in my heart regarding an issue. That way of communicating is better. Did we come out with what we wanted? No. Were we close with this litigation? We could have been. We put everything on the table. Our fishery has cost so much, while no one else has had to put up anything. Parties behind the scenes are protected and don’t have to be in the litigation. There are other users of the river, including the ports and irrigators, that don’t expend the huge cost the tribes and the US government are expending to just maintain what we’ve been getting.

So, it’s important to come to the table to talk about how the river is appropriated. Ten or twenty years ago I’d think back to the tribe’s claiming water for fish. “You’re really joking, right?” was the mentality. “No,” but the tribe looks at water for irrigation as joke. Well, we need to unite in saying all water use is important and valued. So how can we avoid over-appropriating this river, and instead guarantee appropriate usage. We don’t need winners and losers, nor a judge declaring you need to spill water over that dam. That just gets people upset. Enraged Congressmen or Senators then do drastic things which send uncertainty through the Northwest. So, everybody is uncomfortable with everybody, on all sides. We are and they are. What do we in the Northwest value here? What do we each want to protect?

Many people are uninformed and there are many scare tactics when these legal battles begin. “The sky will fall if they get their way…,” and that kind of thing. Before I served on the Tribal Council, I’d listen to our tribal leaders’ concerns about losing economic stability if the dams were removed. We needed an answer to prevent huge economic loss to people who rely on the barging system, or irrigation and things like that. So, it’s back to whether there’s a will to do it.

THE LOST ECONOMY of SALMON

ALISON JONES / NWNL We’ve talked about broad concepts thus far. And yesterday we interviewed your cousin Joe Oatman and wildlife biologist Angela Sondanaa on specifics about the Nez restoration of Nez Perce riparian habitats, fisheries and wildlife habitats.

REBECCA MILES They’re wonderful. They are the top of their game in this business.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Yes; and our discussion with them leads to questions for you. We’ve learned about the cultural significance of salmon, steelhead, lamprey and other fish in your Nation, relating to your thoughts on their economic significance.

REBECCA MILES There’s an historic importance of these aquatic species as “the bread and butter” of our Nez Perce diet and way of life. Many today don’t understand that. When I testify at field hearings and such, there are degrading voices that say, “Yeah, that’s great, but having salmon on your dinner plates is insignificant.” Ever since the Columbia has been completely dammed there is little or no understanding of salmon’s economic value to the Nez Perce people.

Dams annihilated our economy. It was like the stock market crashing. Our salmon rendezvous events involved trading centered around salmon. It is our sacred food; and our whole life is based on caring for Mother Nature. That allows us to live successful and healthy lives, based on a strong economy. But “our stock market” crashed when the Dalles Dam was built. That annihilated the Celilo Falls, our major rendezvous point on the Columbia River. It was our New York Stock Exchange – but now it’s gone. There is no trading there anymore – nor fishing. After what dams have done to our fishery, we had to prioritize. Our highest priority, as we harvest fish, is those ceremonial and subsistence fisheries. The commercial fishery is no substitute.

Many of our families are supported by having a commercial fishery. Some of our Nez Perce families living on the river continue fishing to feed their families and to earn an income. Many people think, “Oh, the Nez Perce tribe and other tribes just want to sell fish. They don’t eat it.” But that’s not true. You need the historical context of the economy of salmon around our Plateau Tribes before you judge them.

ADVOCACY & The "DAMNATION" FILM

ALISON JONES / NWNL Our NWNL colleague Barbara Folger and I want to better understand the economics of removing dams and whether your issues can influence non-tribal stakeholders to join you in that.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL You understand the reasons to preserve the salmon, and you are emotionally and spiritually connected with the salmon. Non-tribal members lack your emotional connection to salmon, in the face of the economic considerations regarding dams. Do you think that can change? Will they ever accept your moral reasons for dam removals?

REBECCA MILES I think our educational efforts are greatly improved. Recently I got a flutter of hope that the situation could be positive in the next 10 to 20 years…. I assume you’ve seen the recent film, DamNation. Still on Tribal Council, I was interviewed in that film. I was later impressed with the film, and was consequently had more interviews. Although the film was preaching to the choir, it did a wonderful job.

We’re at the crossroads of getting it right. Given the awareness of climate change, over-appropriated river systems, and the new 2014-15 FCRPS bi-op on hydroelectric dams, I think that film comes right on time. While those filmmakers were unfamiliar with dam operations and the harm they could cause, they sought all sides of the issues and did a good job of talking about the economics of salmon while making the film entertaining as well.

The film focus included American history and our thinking as it asked, “What is the next step?” I understand the film is really gaining steam and being seen by a broader audience, not just the nay-sayers and the cheerleaders. We need everybody to see it and then stop to reflect and rethink this issue – and maybe come to the table. And I hope in the next decade people will talk openly and honestly. We fight for salmon to survive as they travel up and down 8 dams, especially as we face climate change – a scary state.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL Do you think this film can give non-natives the moral compass to be more concerned?

REBECCA MILES Yes, I believe it can convince people to do something or at least rethink these deadbeat dams, which we call the 4 Lower Snake River dams. The film does a good job of including all the right players, including an ex-Army Corps of Engineers employee saying, “My economics were misrepresented.” That kind of information can impact my sister and others who are busy with their everyday lives and unaware of this issue in which they have a big stake. The film is entertaining for everyone: at some points you’re crying; at other points you’re laughing. And then you’re sitting there thinking, “Wow, I didn’t know that!

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL In 1995 Robert Divine wrote in his article, “But when you hear calls for more dams because of global warming, the depletion of oil reserves, a trend toward a drier climate, or the latest flood…, think twice: once about your tax dollars, and once about your environment.” That was 20 years ago.

IRRIGATOR FARMERS

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL Our expedition along the Snake River began by talking with the Columbia Snake River Irrigators. They said they’ll soon get more water from a dam being built in Canada. It seems there’s tons of water here to use, yet they’ll soon get so-called “new water.”

REBECCA MILES I don’t know enough about irrigators. An article in a Washington State University magazine resembled Roosevelt’s promise that those who settle in northwest and western states would be guaranteed water for farming in places that would fail otherwise. It seems the irrigators are demanding the US government fulfill their dream of water to ensure their farms do well. I personally don’t disagree, except it makes farmers reliant on that system.

In my first time around in the Federal Columbia River Power System bio-op, I naively asked, “Why do irrigators get a “win” when they’re not in this litigation? They use as much water as the hydrodams.” It seemed to me they’d want more water in the river, like we did. Then, somebody explained there was an inexpensive way to lower their irrigation pipes into the river if dams were removed.

There’s a cheaper way by just extending out their pumps, and I don’t know why that wasn’t exhausted. I understand they need water, and we don’t agree with how much water they take out, since they’re not the river’s most senior users. Only tribes have that status. Yet irrigators are treated as the most senior user. Thus, Columbia River water rights in Oregon and Washington have not been settled, so we retain and reserve our right to water in those systems.

WATER NEEDS of SALMON SMOLTS

REBECCA MILES I’ve always had questions on water rights. If the US builds a dam, that means they’re holding and using water from Canada. Plus, it means less water downstream in the Lower Columbia.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL My understanding is they’re building dams to ensure a continuous “water slide” in the summer, so water can be released and used when the river is low.

REBECCA MILES The scary thing is that summer is when fish need it most. That’s when the smolts need water to migrate down to the Pacific, since the water then is warm and slow. We secured water rights from Clearwater River as it exits Dworshak Dam. That was critical since we needed to ensure the guarantee of continued water flows when BPA wants to hold that water back for power.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL Would it benefit the smolts if more water was released for longer periods in the summer? How long do they stay in the river?

REBECCA MILES It could be. But in building a dam, the passage of delicate smolts through that dam should be of great concern. These juvenile fish face many threats, including predators and polluted waters. But their greatest threat occurs as they pass through those giant turbines.

When those juveniles return as full-grown salmon, they must again survive passage through the Columbia hydro-system of dams. Our job is to improve that entire issue, although I don’t know if releasing more water would help the smolts through the first 2 weeks of their river-and-dam passages.

It’s not a long time, but BPA knocked at our door, wanting to hold that water back for power. Fortunately, we’ve had the right in our Snake River water settlement, to say, “No, the fish need that water. We must guarantee a normal flow during August, our hottest month.”

"DAMNATION" & "DEADBEAT DAMS"

ALISON JONES / NWNL Going back to the DamNation film made by Patagonia, I heard the company’s founder Yvon Chouinard speak on salmon and “deadbeat dams” at the decommissioning of the Olympic Peninsula’s Elwha Dam. You also use the term ‘deadbeat dams.” Did you get it from him, or have the Nez Perce have used that term for a long time? If not, where does that term comes from?

REBECCA MILES That’s a good question. I didn’t coin that phrase. It may have started with the film. The producers used that term before the film came out. I like it because it separates us from environmentalists. Tribes aren’t asking to take down all dams. But we really need to rethink the issues.

The DamNation film does a great job of explaining these dams are past their lifetime. So do we find funding to improve them or do we remove them? Are the benefits greater than the cost of removal? Those are questions the film doesn’t answer, but it does show people rethinking the dams. How much benefit are these dams to us? How much do they cost the everyday taxpayer?

WINNERS & LOSERS in DAM REMOVALS

ALISON JONES / NWNL Would removal of these dams benefit the taxpayer? If so, how?

REBECCA MILES Removing the 4 Lower Snake River dams would benefit everyone in the Northwest, notably all the users of the river. The cost of keeping and repairing these old dams will cost taxpayers more money than removing them. You need taxpayer dollars, but the benefits far exceed costs to the taxpayer. Fortunately, Linwood Laughy, a retired Army Corps of Engineers employee explains and documents that because most of us can’t accurately argue that point. [Ed: NWNL’s “Snake River Dams“ interview with Lin Laughy was taped the same day as this interview.]

In all tough decision we make, we always bring in third-party experts. Anyone more senior than Linwood Laughy in the Corps of Engineers would be more political and thus couldn’t speak out. It is now obvious with his numbers that it would be more beneficial to the everyday taxpayer to remove the dams and restore the river, letting it run like a river. Yet, that would reduce the ease of getting grain and other products to market – and many other things would be impacted.

So can we get from point A to B so we’re all winners? Everybody must give up a little, me personally as a taxpayer, irrigators, the Ports of Wilma and Lewiston … It’s changing long-held mindsets that allows our future generations to win. Then everybody wins.

DAM REMOVAL PROCESSES & BENEFITS

ALISON JONES / NWNL You want to speed up the process, because the salmon are being more endangered than predicted, due to climate change and other impacts. My daughter is involved in dam removal and decommissioning on the East Coast. When I suggested to her that the 4 Lower Snake River Dams might come down soon, and she said, “Mom, relax. This will take a long time. Permitting and solving government regulations will take at least 20 years.”

But in discussing the Condit Dam out here, she said, “Yet there’s a strong argument that could be effective that argues the salmon are becoming so endangered that the whole process must move along faster.” That was her one caveat. Is it possible that argument might be the incentive to hasten dam removal?

REBECCA MILES Well, it was tried. They said we must speed up the removal of the lower Snake River Dams, since the salmon are, or are becoming, an endangered species. That is what we thought during the 2004 and 2008 FCRPS [Federal Columbia River Power System] biological opinion [aka, “bio-op”]. The judge mentioned it a few times in court processes; but a federal judge cannot order the breaching of the lower Snake River dams. That must be a Congressional Act, and there we got a resounding, “No, it’s not going to happen in our lifetime. It’s never going to happen, so just give that up.”

So now we’re arguing for an aggressive non-breach approach. That would mean spill operations at the time of year when the fish need it the most, so this has been flatly refused, despite being ordered by the judge. There is new battleground thinking and I’m not part of our tribal policy discussions on dams; but the conversation is much more prevalent than it was then.

And I say this, many tribes had agreed to accords with Bonneville Power Administration [BPA]. The tribes that were suing over an illegal bi-op basically said, “We’re going to set aside our fighting for now and agree to these 10-year agreements. We’ll move forward with BPA and the federal agencies.” Yet we, the Nez Perce, said “No” for two reasons. One was we would have to agree not to advocate in any way, shape, or form for the breaching of the lower Snake River dams. I thought about it” Okay, I’m naïve, young, and haven’t been in this game a long time. But why would the Federal government ask us to agree to something they say won’t happen in our lifetime? Why do they want the Nez Perce tribe to agree to never advocate for breaching the Lower Snake River dams? A gut feeling inside me said, “Maybe they’re afraid that breaching could happen much sooner, and if the Nez Perce now promise to never argue for that breaching, they’ll have excluded the most powerful player from those discussions.” I knew that couldn’t be.

So we wouldn’t agree to that BPA. Will dam agreements take time? Yes, because in this tug and pull much of the success of arguing to save the fish is because of the Nez Perce tribe. Our habitat and hatchery measures have been extremely successful. You’ve seen that this week. Will that be enough? Our goal is to have our own healthy harvestable levels – and BPA has to mitigate for the damages that they cause.

VOTERS CAN SAVE SPECIES

The Nez Perce tribe puts a lot of effort into ensuring survival of the bald eagle, spotted owl, gray wolf and more. We want them to survive in the environment on their own. I hope that the fish speak for us, loud and clear about their challenges today and maybe force Congressional action. The everyday voter needs to say, “We’re not going to allow these fish to become extinct on our watch. They’re too valuable to the tribe, and who we are as Northwesterners.” The everyday voters have the power to put people in Congress. The rest of the country will do what the Northwest delegation wants.

ALISON JONES / NWNL So I’m now going to ask you to look into this camera and speak to that everyday taxpayer, using 2 or 3 sentences on why protecting Northwest salmon is to their benefit, even if they are in in St. Louis or Sacramento, Atlanta or New York City or here. Why will this be beneficial to their pocketbook?

REBECCA MILES This would be my 2-minute pitch:

ALISON JONES / NWNL That’s a PSA if I ever heard it. Thank you.

REBECCA MILES But I’m not running for anything.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL No, but you’re running for the removal of the dams.

HATCHERY SALMON PRO'S & CON'S

REBECCA MILES We must all be running for the salmon! But let me get back to technical issues involving salmon hatcheries. David Montgomery wrote the King of the Fish and was also in DamNation. In his book The King of Fish he points out that overuse of hatcheries can create inbreeding of the wild salmon. So while you can support the hatcheries as being responsible for saving some salmon species, there are negative issues. It’s a fine line.

In Congress, debates over hatcheries includes disagreement over their value. Hatcheries mitigate the cause of declines in salmon runs, or you could say hatcheries are a result of and mitigation for dams. In DamNation, I was asked by the media what I thought? The film took a harsh view on hatcheries, but I don’t criticize the film for its view or the way hatcheries were portrayed, because the film’s thrust wasn’t on hatcheries.

The film mentioned hatcheries as one aspect of mitigation, and uncovered why certain hatcheries aren’t successful. I wasn’t offended that they didn’t feature tribal hatcheries because the bigger and more important message was our “deadbeat dams.” The film’s point was we’ve got to quit all this tinkering and just really fix the system.

NEZ PERCE AS ROLE MODEL

The Nez Perce and other tribes are the lead of hatcheries and hatchery fish. We don’t just have hatchery fish to harvest them. We have hatcheries because we need healthy fish that can survive. Our Nez Perce supplementation efforts in our hatcheries, such as rearing our fish in simulated wild scenarios, teaches our salmon to be wild so they can survive.

In contrast, think of what goes on at SeaWorld, where killer whales are confined their entire life. They can never send them out to survive on their own. We, on the other hand, try to provide our juvenile fish a healthy start in their native environment – not in foreign habitats where a chance to survive is more dismal than their chances in the ocean. The Nez Perce are proud of its salmon-raising efforts. Yet the US turned this around, asking, “Why are the Nez Perce still suing us, if they’re doing so well on the Clearwater River?”

Yes, the Nez Perce are the lead on scientific efforts to improve the life of salmon. It’s very simple: if we teach them to be wild, we’ll hopefully achieve healthy harvestable levels. So, we want more hatcheries. Reaches up and down the Columbia River Basin need to reintroduce fish. We feel the best way is by providing a hatchery to release young salmon.

ALISON JONES / NWNL What is your checklist of good versus bad hatchery practices?

REBECCA MILES If you look at tribal hatcheries you’ll see they’re not the unnatural, overfilled, and dirty hatcheries the film critiqued. Bad hatchery practices include growing and releasing fish simply for harvest! Granted, we also grow fish to harvest, but we want them to be self-sustaining. Those are two different philosophies.

As in the film, DamNation, hatchery breeding practices to reproduce fish are antithetical to our goal of healthy harvestable fish. We rear ours in the wild, teaching juveniles to be wild, and fostering success throughout their entire existence – from here to the ocean and back here again. Our goal is not to produce unappetizing, farm-raised fish to feed our people. We’re protecting fish.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Specifically, how you raise a hatchery fish to be wild.

REBECCA MILES Teaching a hatchery fish to be wild begins at its inception. Our very first efforts begin with smolts, vis a vis how they’re born and what kind of water they’re in. Some of our hatcheries look like and are shaped like a native stream. That imbues in them a sense of their native environment to which to return as spawning adults.

The salmon cycle is often described as “gravel to gravel” or “hilltop to hilltop,” or “mountaintop to mountaintop.” That is valid so efforts in our hatcheries are reproducing the stream conditions in which – in Nature – they’d be born into before migrating out to the ocean. It’s exciting to create those native conditions and have them respond.

ALISON JONES / NWNL That’s fascinating! Those I’ve seen are long, rectangular, concrete water tubs. It seems the Nez Perce hatcheries instead have unique architectural structures.

REBECCA MILES Yes! Look at the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission website to see our tribe’s hatchery efforts and how Lower Columbia River tribes have taken the basic hatchery system to the elite level of reproducing fish. Our own folks are a part of that website – our biologists, our scientists, and all those in our Fisheries Department are the lead on it all!

OH, DAM!

ALISON JONES / NWNL If the dams came down, would that end the need for hatcheries?

REBECCA MILES Hopefully, we may soon have some sort of agreement on hatcheries’ best practices. They must be improved to best benefit our salmon runs – not like hatcheries in the film DamNation. I believe the long-term need for hatcheries will be up to fish populations and river conditions. I don’t believe that’ll be soon. We aren’t keeping hatcheries just to keep funding to protect salmon. It’s because we know the US won’t remove all the dams. There’s only talk about removing the 4 Lower Snake River Dams; and the many Columbia River Basin waterways are now so over-appropriated! Yet, people from the US Southwest come here and ask, “Why are you guys all fighting over water? There’s so much of it!”

Every single US stream or river is over-appropriated. Thus, I believe the state of fish, particularly salmon, will always demand our help. Removing the 4 Lower Snake River Dams would be a huge step toward salmon survival and, hopefully, increased salmon runs. But climate change will worsen, particularly regarding ocean conditions. We don’t talk much about ocean issues. But salmon send their young downstream to the ocean, unaware of worsening conditions; and they return upstream sick. So, we also pay attention to over-fishing in the ocean. Salmon there need our help too.

SCIENCE & LAWS ADDRESSING SALMON

ALISON JONES / NWNL Some say, “Hey, lower salmon populations aren’t about dams…. Look at the un-dammed Fraser River’s salmon populations that have crashed in British Columbia. Their numbers come and they go.” To me, this refusal to blame dams rings the same tone of climate deniers. Do you know about the Fraser River salmon population decline? How would you answer that comment?

REBECCA MILES I don’t know what’s causing the Fraser River’s salmon declines, since our conditions are different. Here, science tells us the biggest harvesters of fish are the Lower Snake River dams. Before the dams, Indian and non-Indian fisheries used to be at each other’s throat, causing Salmon Wars. Legal scholars report Indians were arrested for fishing. Yet, they fought over breadcrumbs, relative to our fight over today’s biggest harvesters – the dams. We’re demanding fish passages at dams and good water conditions. Yet the hydro system will say, “It was a good run: 95% of the fish returned – maybe 98%.” Well, they only count the salmon returning, not how many juveniles were released. The science, in this case, speaks for itself.

That’s why I insist we focus on the science. The science must protect these species. Already a federal judge has said a biological opinion in the last go-around was illegal. We have a new judge and hope lawyers will follow the law. Often these court cases are all the smoke and mirrors; but currently Judge Redden, my hero, focuses on the law.

Accords and agreements are wonderful, but today’s litigation is over dam operations, not habitat, hatcheries, or even dam breaching. Judge Redden ruled only on that – a victory for us. We still face more years of litigation and little change in operations. The fear is whether people will become too tired of taxpayer money paying for litigation, even though the fish are saying, “Help me, help me!” But what we value in the great Northwest are salmon, and we’ll support them.

The ANT, the YELLOWJACKET and COYOTE

ALISON JONES / NWNL Rebecca, thank you for sharing your culture’s priorities and commitments. Author Henry Miller wrote: “The world is not to be put in order. The world is order. It’s for us to put ourselves in unison with this order.” In your culture, Coyote wandered around doing these fabulous things and bringing order. What is Coyote thinking now? What would Coyote advise now?

REBECCA MILES I always look at myself as a student of everything – and maybe that’s Coyote’s position also. Our people have always believed we were stewards; and in today’s terms, we are students. We are to be taught only by Mother Nature. Our job is to protect her. I personally think that’s my role now, as a young student of this life. I only want to see good – no winners, no losers. I want us all to feel we’ve done our best for future generations.

When I think of Coyote, I think of our elders telling us Coyote stories. Coyote was quite the character. It was Coyote who taught lessons, even if you didn’t want to be taught. Hopefully, Coyote is morally teaching us what to do today without harming each other.

We’re all neighbors – human beings who can work with one another in a good way and do the right thing. Ten or twenty years ago – maybe now if the tribes win or we get another bi-op thrown out in court, many have said, “The environmentalists will sue until the end of time. We’re still as far apart as when we started.” But maybe Coyote will help us come together.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Yesterday, driving up along the Clearwater, I saw a billboard about Coyote with the ant and the yellow-jacket bee.

As they fought over a salmon. Coyote said, “Stop fighting and share.” But they kept fighting; so he turned them into rocks. So now their jaws are permanently locked. That parable seems to me to symbolize this fight – do you agree?

REBECCA MILES Absolutely. The story of ant and yellow jacket – of all the Coyote stories – best fits today’s zero-sum game of winners and losers. The environment loses or wins, but it doesn’t gain. We were fighting, fighting, fighting to be winners, as our people were getting arrested on the river. Finally, in 1974 our rights were proved in the Judge Boldt Decision, which upheld our 1850’s treaty rights to fish with nets off reservation. As a young girl, I couldn’t go to Rapid River, due to those terrible fishermen’s conflicts. Nowadays Indian and non-Indian people are locked together arm in arm at that fishery.

That little town of Riggins – near the Ant and Yellowjacket sign – now welcomes our people down there. But before, we couldn’t even walk into a store there to buy something. They didn’t want us there. Now they’ve realized they were facing the results of only a little bit of fish that left in the river.

So why were we fighting each other? There was a bigger problem. We needed to come together to battle this, and so we and they won. They by their protecting all the fisheries and moving to the bigger catches. Depleting the bigger catches are what we’re battling now. Can that be improved? I believe it can, because if not, we will be like ant and yellow jacket fighting and fighting and fighting – with the losers being the environment. All our people care about the environment and are speaking for that which can’t speak for itself. That is our fight.

When you think about the story of The Ant and The Yellowjacket and their fighting causing them becoming stone, the real lesson in turning into stone is for our future generations, because you can fight for the here and now, but unfortunately not tomorrow. You can fight for status quo and think, “All I care about is having enough water for right now. I don’t care about my children or grandchildren having enough water for their farm down the road.”

That makes you ultimately the loser who turns to stone, because you can’t turn back time. You can’t change what you’ve done. The resource is gone. We’re always taught lessons from Coyote. Our grandparents teach us about those simple things that we really shouldn’t be fighting over.

ALISON JONES / NWNL I am so glad I drove up Route 12 yesterday and saw that sign!

FOREVER COMMITTED

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL Rebecca, you wrapped that up beautifully and with passion.

REBECCA MILES Thank you. I reduced my commitment because I’m a single mother of two boys and need to be with them. I’m no longer involved with Tribal Council Executive Sessions or confidential discussion, but I read up and pay attention. I poke and prod if I see we’re not doing enough. And I still get yanked in. Last year I was asked to go to D.C. for the 40th anniversary of the Endangered Species Act. It was great to listen to Congressman Dingle speak of when there were no partisan politics.

Beyond being Nez Perce and affiliated with this tribe, I care personally as an everyday citizen. So, if my voice helps move resolutions or improvements forward, that’s what I do when called. In our way, if you’re called upon, you’re supposed to do it. So I told the producers of DamNation, “I’ll go to DC, because that film needs to be seen by all congressional offices, especially the Northwest delegation.” They said, ” Rebecca, we need you there on the panel.” I suggested it, so I went.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Your voice is powerful and unique. What do you see in your future?

REBECCA MILES Time has flown. I was 31 when elected to the Tribal Council for 6 years and I’ve served 4 years as Chair. When on Council, I was missing my sons’ birthdays, parent/teacher conferences, the first time a son did something…. But now, I’m off the Council, yet still Chair, and my sons can walk here after school. We travel almost every weekend for sports and do everything together. I don’t regret pulling back by leaving the Council. When my sons graduate from high school, today’s issues will still exist, and maybe I’ll jump in again. Hopefully, my boys will also take an interest when older to lead some issues, so we don’t repeat our mistakes.

BARBARA FOLGER / NWNL Thank you so much for all your answers to our questions.

ALISON JONES / NWNL Yes, Barbara and I thank you deeply for sharing your experiences, your values and your insight into solving the many issues that swirl around us all today.

Posted by NWNL on October 31, 2024.
Transcription edited and condensed for clarity by Alison M. Jones.

Chair of Nez Perce Nation Columbia River Basin